defining pixel and draw
BotB Academy Bug Reports and Feature Requests
 
 
157392
Level 29 Hostist
puke7
 
 
 
post #157392 :: 2022.06.11 4:22pm
  
  big lumby, DefenseMechanism, nitrofurano, Lincent and damifortune liēkd this
I've had quite a bit of time to think on this and I'm starting to feel like I have a solution. I'm open to others' thoughts and ideas on the situation. Here's what I have so far:

Pixel
160x144 px maximum resolution
32 maximum colors
This is roughly based on Gameboy (Color) and Sega Game Gear display limitations. While I'd like BotBrs to have the option to make larger pixel arts in majors (i.e. a fullscreen mockup of 16bit console or VGA level graphics), we definitely need to set some standard for XHBs. Bit packs can, of course, set a smaller target resolution.

Draw
640x480 px minimum resolution?
I'm not really sure what would be a good minimum resolution. The embedded display on entry pages is 610px wide. While 640x480 is a screen resolution of the past, I think its large enough that a person isn't going to do detailed pixel art work. I'm an old fogey and think "drawing" is typically done on paper with pencil and/or pen/ink. There's no reason for this boomer mentality. The minimum just needs to be big enough to ensure broader/longer strokes from folks.

I'm hoping we can find some sort of consensus here and these formats' availability shall once again prevail for XHBs.
 
 
157393
Level 13 Mixist
02FD
 
 
post #157393 :: 2022.06.11 4:27pm :: edit 2022.06.11 4:28pm
Can it be 56 maximum colors? that's apparently the Gameboy Color maximum and it's funny
But also because scenery needs a lot more colors than character art
 
 
157394
Level 28 Chipist
damifortune
 
 
 
post #157394 :: 2022.06.11 4:31pm
setting clear, very distinct boundaries between the two formats (hopefully in the format description blurb) does seem like a good answer to this conundrum

i have no real opinion on the actual values for resolution/colors, but what you've outlined seems reasonable to me
 
 
157395
Level 31 Chipist
kleeder
 
 
 
post #157395 :: 2022.06.11 4:33pm
  
  damifortune liēkd this
i feel like it might be worth it to think about an actual check in the code when u upload something to these formats ... in xhbs...?

similar to the size limits in modxk formats, the page tells u when u too big

my opinion on the subject itself didnt change and i still agree with ur point of view.
also a
 
 
157397
Level 20 Chipist
Ravancloak
 
 
 
post #157397 :: 2022.06.11 4:42pm
I suppose that visual could function as a catch all if people really wanted to do something bigger and still be pixel art, like snes or pc-98. As far as colors, (again with pc-98 lol), there's a lot of detailed scenery with only 16 colors. I think 32 is a fair amount.

No matter how I think about it, draw res seems very reasonable.
 
 
157401
Level 23 Grafxicist
Webriprob
 
 
 
post #157401 :: 2022.06.11 6:07pm
I'll admit I never really liked the draw format, but tbh I don't really mind if it's a format if people really want it.
But from my experience, I don't think the definition of pixel was ever really an issue?
Considering that only a small minority of pixel art is actually this small or this limited in color, it seems like kind of an arbitrary restriction that would be better suited to a bitpack or something like that.
 
 
157403
Level 23 Pedagogist
ViLXDRYAD
 
 
 
post #157403 :: 2022.06.11 6:35pm
unsure boat pixel art resolution set that low, atari 8bit could get a resolution of 320px wide, snes up to 512px wide (240/256 tall for ntsc/pal) with 256 colors, and playstation up to 640 pixels wide (and without double buffering, 480/512 pixels tall)

for ibm pc compatible, they could support 1280px wide and 1200px tall, without using VESA BIOS extension: here a list of modes and color depth for the former http://www.ctyme.com/intr/rb-0069.htm the highest one being 16M (24-bit, aka "true color", the playstation also can use it)

this said, botb pixel format abiding to a particular spec sounds good, like the one you hint based on game boy; perhaps a pixel spec for a hypothetical possible screenful on a "botb fantasy computer" :p
 
 
157413
Level 26 Chipist
nitrofurano
 
 
 
post #157413 :: 2022.06.12 1:58am
i think that 640x480 and 256 (non-grayscale) colours can be a nice frontier between pixel and draw - for example, i think pixeljoint gallery have some stuff in resolution like 256x192 (msx1, zx-spectrum) or 320x200 (cga, ega, atari-st, c64, etc.) - and nec pc8801 and sharp x1 also had a 640x200 resolution with 8 colours that can provide interesting pixel art results
 
 
157414
Level 20 Chipist
MelonadeM
 
 
 
post #157414 :: 2022.06.12 3:14am :: edit 2022.06.12 3:16am
i think that's a fine enough compromise for pixel, the gameboy was a very popular system and it still is

maybe a compromise for other platform representation could be in the form of either cropping it to a 160x144 area that suits the piece best, or perhaps a size limit of like 64kb for any png larger than 160x144, but that might require a lot of bodging to even get to work so i'm 100% down to just dealing with 160x144 and 32 colours

as for how to determine whether a submission follows that, this tool calculates both the resolution and the number of colours present, perhaps it can be studied and implemented here (or taken with permission from the author: http://yanrishatum.ru/pj/ )

i forgot to mention that's definitely a very reasonable limit for draw, at least 640x480 is large enough where i don't draw at a pixel-precise level, i wouldn't do an "at least 256 colours" though because i tend to use a tablet with CSP and at least for outlining i use a brush without antialisaing, and if i don't colour it in it'll definitely just be a 1bit image lol
 
 
157423
Level 31 chipist
Chip Champion
 
 
 
post #157423 :: 2022.06.12 8:05am
  
  Viraxor, Luigi64 and now_its_dark liēkd this
i like the minimum res on draw, i think the maximum rez on pixel is too small though. maybe a new "sprite" format could be good for tiny pixels
 
 
157450
Level 17 Pixelist
kilowatt64
 
 
 
post #157450 :: 2022.06.13 8:35pm
  
  Viraxor and ViLXDRYAD liēkd this
My two cents. I'd agree with Webriprob, maybe rather than a small resolution, leave it up to hosts to require specific res via bitpacks? It'd be a shame to see less of this kind of lovely stuff based on resolution:
https://battleofthebits.org/arena/Entry/Infinity/51674/


I get where this is coming from though. I get that there has been argument around defining what is legal vs. illegal in pixel and we're trying to avoid that by making a quantifiable definition. I think we could at least agree that pixel art is generally based on an aesthetic, and as such imho I think we should deal with issues around pixel legality on a case-by-case basis. An arbitrary limit gets us closer to not arguing about rules, but also limits some participation, which could in effect end with less art being shared.

If we need to go the resolution route, at least make it less restrictive. Not sure what I'd recommend though.
 
 
157452
Level 18 Pixelist
now_its_dark
 
 
 
post #157452 :: 2022.06.13 10:47pm
  
  mirageofher and kilowatt64 liēkd this
It's a tricky subject for sure, since the res & color restriction alone wouldn't disqualify a photo taken with a gameboy camera, for instance.
It is the stylistic intent and process of arriving at the result which distinguish between low resolution art and pixel art, no matter how low it goes.

It would be pretty incredible if someone were able to produce a polished bit of pixel art at above gameboy color res in an hour though, so that makes sense to me for xhbs. For majors it could to be higher definitely, like maybe mega drive territory or even VGA.

Personally, I think 640x480 is a bit too low for draw, if the goal is to distinguish it from pixel— generally, 640x480 is still definitely viable for detailed pixel art, though painstaking. My demo.mid sub for last future battles was 600x600. Maybe 800x600+?
 
 
157453
Level 23 Grafxicist
Webriprob
 
 
 
post #157453 :: 2022.06.14 12:32am
  
  kilowatt64 liēkd this
A size restriction on OHBs wouldn't be the end of the world, but I feel like for majors it should not have a set limit
 
 

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