Ban donloads from non-BotBrs?
BotB Academy Bug Reports and Feature Requests
Level 30 Mixist
Baron Knoxburry
post #13939 :: 2010.11.07 2:05pm
This isn't exactly a bandwidth issue yet, but it is smart to practice conservation especially should BotB ever explode.

Yeah, the daily stat log. Compare the number of plays to donloads. A little out of balance? Yeah. So I move, in order to encourage site browsing rather than scraping, to remove or make absent the buttons and abilities that directly donload any entry or mp3 render from any non-logged-in non-official-BotBr-n00b-guest(s).

Login, n00bs! Listen, comment, donload.

Level 31 chipist
Chip Champion
post #13940 :: 2010.11.07 3:00pm
sounds good to me!

boost registers from lurkers and hopefully increase participation with uploads and votes

non botbrs dont need to be able to DL screw em ><
Level 16 OHCist
Soiled Bargains
post #13941 :: 2010.11.07 3:03pm
I'd like to avoid this as much as possible. Only a fraction of the entries on BotB have been rendered to MP3, making a lot of entries inaccessible to the guest. Frankly, I doubt we'll ever convert them all.

We'd deprive some people of good times (especially those who don't care to go as far as registering), and we'd lose interest from those who just barely wanted to dip their toes in the water.

I have two ideas:
• Have separate download page for guests. They have to specify the entry number and the compo number (not the OHC number for OHCs). While this won't be a challenge for human leechers, it's a nice start.
• Keep things the way they are, but apply the spam counter-measurements you use on your blog. If there are a lot of random downloads coming from certain IP addresses, they can be flagged for an admin to look at. Though, if BotB explodes, this won't work so well.

Sorry for the rushed comment, if you need any clarifications let me know. I've been working on this for, like, 40 minutes with so many distractions. That is too much time. =x
Level 27 Renderist
post #13942 :: 2010.11.07 4:02pm
BotB has been a fringe group and many like it that way. However, forcing some people to log in may deter tr00n00bs and make early resentment of the site.

I said in chat we might want to even consider Google AdSense for non-registered Guests with a checkmark to allow AdSense in personal palettes just in case BotBrs want to "donate;" making sure that it's disabled for registered users by default. This way there is less bandwidth wasted and BotB could be more valuable for puke7/admin time. (Not to mention it might be hilarious to see what Google AdSense tries to push off with BotB's keywords.)

This would make sure that people get to have a taste of people's music and allow for exposure without people having to jump through loops; catering the mass population of ADHD lazy peoples.
Level 16 OHCist
Soiled Bargains
post #13943 :: 2010.11.07 5:35pm
B00daW, you better explain my points. :D

I'm fine with your solution, even though Google is evil. >:o
Level 23 Renderist
post #13951 :: 2010.11.08 12:29pm :: edit 2010.11.08 12:32pm
I agree with puke7 on this.

Non registered users can listen all works on the site (rendered ones)
Registered users have full access to all the goodies (download renders/original entries).
If an entry is good enough for you to download, how come don't you register and comment on it? How much help would it be to the composer that you like his/her entry that much that you don't even show appreciation?

no@having full access to everything on the site for non registers users(downloads) If you care enough about an entry, show it.

no@googlead nonsense on this example, and current time.

@the issue of renders. People are now able to upload their own renders, and administrators can upload as well, which has been happening lately (batch render conversions by Strobe, custom timed ones from me) I'm quite sure we will get ALL ENTRIES rendered in a year from now. That's how much confidence I have on botb.

no@Soiled, and his first comment
WHY do you hate people and think this is 1998 with that download system? no

I *fully* agree!
Login, n00bs! Listen, comment, donload.
Level 16 OHCist
Soiled Bargains
post #13954 :: 2010.11.08 7:46pm
I still think that this can leave bad first impressions of BotB. Who's going to like a site that forces you to register for something that you've come to expect from a site like this? No doubt some people wouldn't even bother.

I understand that there must be a decent amount of money keeping BotB alive. I also acknowledge that because of this something(s) will need to be sacrificed in order to keep costs down. However, guest downloading is kinda expected from sites that have a lot of chip work on them. At least provide the raw file, if possible.

anewuser, I'm all for constructive criticism and praise, but do you really think that forcing sign-ups would create such an outcome? Don't assume that guests who want to download entries (especially ones that they're not able to hear yet) will want to leave a comment as well.
Level 23 Renderist
post #13956 :: 2010.11.09 5:48am
@raw file > yes. Renders, nope. I'm the kind of person that would actually register for a file and never go back. Hrmm, for a second I assumed people would be like me. MISTAKE!!!

@forcing signups for comments > this is WAY a better argument. User participation will only happen if people like a tune/site ENOUGH to comment, otherwise we can try whatever measure to "FORCE" user participation without results (unless le beardie starts handing out money for comments? HAHAHAHAHAHA, we could try that, yes sir :D)

@Soiled, I hate when you come up with valid points, babe :(((((((((((((

Indeed, it's not a direct relation the forcing of signups and commenting. Which brings a quite an interesting conceptual problem of a web site. How to make a site attractive enough to incentivate participation. Hrmmmmmmm...
Level 29 Chipist
post #13957 :: 2010.11.09 6:16am
some type of leech protection would probably make sense, but I agree with some of the comments, there are many formats where renders are not even available. and people are generally lazy, probably only those who are actually planning to contribute in a way or other bother to register anyways. making things too "complicated" for the more random users might "scare" them away.

I for one prefer always downloading the entries and listen them locally (using my own player of choice) and use the embedded player very rarely.
Level 31 chipist
Chip Champion
post #13958 :: 2010.11.09 6:23am
i think in the end, botb is its own "special" thing. botb attracts a certain kind of mindset. no matter how easy or difficult it is to DL files (botb people) will stay and participate and (non-botb people) will leave. as for the non-botb people, i say fzck em.

first and foremost, botb is about "battles!" i mean, its right there in teh name. if botberz really want to showcase their work, there are plenty of other places on the internet that do a way better job of that than botb.
Level 29 Chipist
post #13960 :: 2010.11.09 9:20am
"Don't touch the things! This is a local shop for local people, there's nothing for you here! " ;P
Level 27 Renderist
post #13961 :: 2010.11.09 9:39am
This originally spawned from an IRC conversation with puke7 regarding downloads and BotB funds. I guess let's just focus on downloads for this thread and funds for another.

I'm all for freedom. If you own something, you should do whatever you want. But puke7 is smart in asking since this is a community. If you do what people don't want, you don't have a community.

Your flash player displays messages if it cannot find a file, right? Just keep everything the way it is and reference an error stating, "Whooooooo areeee youuuuu????!!?! ---Join to be a n00b."
Level 28 Hostist
post #13968 :: 2010.11.10 12:49pm
Alright, glad to have BotBrs throwing ideas around!

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that the leachers are typically taking mp3 files. It could also potentially be spiders. In fact, I have absolutely no idea what is going ons.

So, how about requiring people to be logged in in order to download the mp3s? This gets a little weird because some entries are uploaded in mp3 format. Maybe those could still be available as an entry donload?
Level 27 Renderist
post #13977 :: 2010.11.10 3:21pm
Hrm... Let's try to make this simple.

We could lock down all downloadable /Arena content to logged in users only.

Or we can lock down the site entirely to Guests if we really wanted to. If we did that, it would be neat to allow a "Ghost" feature so that logged in users could appear as offline; while counting the amount of ghosts.

I'm also open for keeping things wide open and maybe creating a script to detect scrapers/spiders and blocking them.
Level 16 OHCist
Soiled Bargains
post #13985 :: 2010.11.10 8:21pm :: edit 2010.11.11 4:03pm
Warlord speaks the truth. Even when I was but a guest on this site, the only thing I'd do is download NSFs in their raw form. However, he makes me think of another vague yet possibly valid point. If an author renders a chiptune in a way where his/her intended sound comes through (i.e., he/she puts said chiptune through a particular emulator of choice under certain settings), a guest will be forced to either replicate the rendering or render it by his/herself that will lack its intended sound. Excuse me for the phrasing, but it's a bit late here and I couldn't think of any other way to say it.

puke7 does bring up a good point. I'd like to learn as much as possible about the leechers before I can consider this matter in detail.

When I wrote about providing the raw file, I considered MP3
entries as already being raw. So yes, I'd appreciate it if MP3 entries could be downloaded.
Level 27 Mixist
post #13989 :: 2010.11.11 10:55am
@B00daw: I'm all for freedom. If you own something, you should do whatever you want.

im 100% agree. i Also recomend/think this...

Botb just should let REGISTERED user to download files. dont matter if they are mp3/sap/it or whatever. And for GUEST users you can just show LISTEN option if they are available.

and now the RAGE...

I honestly dont think many ppl care/matter about changes. They will just critique and tell stupid things about why they think what's the best way or whats the best idea or whatever. So been honest, i preffer to puke7 take the decision and do things without worrie about what ppl think about or what they spect.
After saying that, i know most of the ppl would like/love a REGARD for donation.
Level 23 Mixist
post #14059 :: 2010.11.18 8:54pm
I tend to use wget or fetch to get the downloads.

An idea, by the way: how about hiding the "Donload MP3" link to unreg'd users and/or XOR 255'ing the contents if a guest attempts to download them, providing tools for just about everything to decrypt the contents?

Then again, I have friends of whom I'd like to show my stuff. I guess if you're able to you could track IPs and if they've visited the compo / song page in the last say 5 or 10 minutes you could permit a download.

HAVING SAID THAT, I have an account on 8bitcollective.

I REFUSE TO USE THE PLAYERS. (But I will very happily download the source files.)
Level 16 OHCist
Soiled Bargains
post #14069 :: 2010.11.19 6:10pm
I see that a few of you are all for puke7 being free to do whatever he wants, and I can see and accept why you feel that way. However, to me this is more of a discussion that should involve the community, and I'm glad puke7 has brought this up instead of immediately disabling downloads.

GreaseMonkey has a fine first point, how will we direct friends (who don't care to be involved in the scene) my chips?

His second point is... yuck?

His third point I somewhat agree with. I think any of the players still don't work so well. I'm all up for puke7's when it comes around, even though I barely use the player at this time.
Level 23 Mixist
post #14080 :: 2010.11.19 10:50pm
Avoiding the players boils down to two things. One, downloading a song twice, and two, usage of adoobie flush.
Level 31 Chipist
post #149024 :: 2021.11.17 3:14pm
  mirageofher liēkd this
i think this is a great idea, we should ban donloads for non-botbrs :D

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