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Level 7 Chipist

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Deuce Came Dancing
  166th/375   Σ23.232   Feb 15th 2014 9:46am
Collaboration between brightentayle and Zillah
This was originally supposed to be for the spc format, but we were unable to make it so.

and here's the .it file: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72154334/Deuce%20Came%20Dancing.it
Creative Commons License

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Level 26 Chipist
post #37246 :: 2014.02.15 9:56am
  brightentayle and Zillah liēkd this
This is great. A shame you weren't able to convert it D:
Level 22 Chipist
post #37248 :: 2014.02.15 10:18am
  Doxic, stinkbug, raphaelgoulart, Zillah, brightentayle and R3M liēkd this
It took you three accounts
Level 22 Chipist
post #37249 :: 2014.02.15 10:30am
  raphaelgoulart liēkd this
Sure - handling wildSPCs is an ass to go around with - and we didn't even have enough time to domesticate it!

Also, thanks to Raph for doing everything he could to convert the final song into SPC. We might revisit/shorten that one for SNES later.
Level 27 Chipist
post #37250 :: 2014.02.15 10:39am
  raphaelgoulart and brightentayle liēkd this
you should collab more often. this is good stuff.
Level 26 Chipist
post #37259 :: 2014.02.15 12:24pm :: edit 2014.02.15 12:36pm
  brightentayle liēkd this
I did my best but the song is HUGE - I was able to make the samples weigh around 32kb tho (they sounded lo-fi as f*ck though), however one would need to optimize the patterns a fucking lot, I don't even know if it's possible to optimize them that much so I gave up.
Level 7 Chipist
post #37821 :: 2014.02.21 1:25pm
  kfaraday and raphaelgoulart liēkd this
"ancient chinese arpfest"
- tags on Deuce Came Dancing
Level 27 Renderist
post #38010 :: 2014.02.23 9:33am :: edit 2014.02.25 10:39pm
  raphaelgoulart liēkd this
i'll try dorking with it for a little while... no promises.

awesome collaboration! great output.


i optimized it down to 92K but with crippling errors. not sure if this one will turn out at the moment but still checking.


not still. :)
Level 24 Chipist
post #38258 :: 2014.02.24 9:58pm
  raphaelgoulart and Zillah liēkd this
I think the SPC would've just made it sound like shit. Good job.
Level 23 Mixist
post #38280 :: 2014.02.25 4:31am
  raphaelgoulart liēkd this
Yeah I actually agree, too bad we ended up having to learn that the hard way.
Oh well, I'm just glad we had wildchip as an alternative
Level 27 Chipist
post #38491 :: 2014.02.26 3:37pm
  Slimeball, raphaelgoulart and mootbooxle liēkd this
You tried to convert this for the SNES? Reminds me of my earlier efforts... and actually, the .it file really tells me that this is in the same boat as my earlier songs!

Main problem is pattern overload... you have a whopping 157 patterns! SNESMod only supports 64 maximum. Right off the bat, I'd up the speed value just to reduce your pattern count (Qxx is your friend for rapid-fire notes with the same pitch). Leaving the pattern count alone is going to result in some serious data consumption, and I do see possibilities in reducing your row count (on the condition that you also combine patterns).

If the pattern data isn't enough to send this song way overboard, the sample size certainly does... a whopping 146,828 total in length! Stereo samples must be made mono, and you can't use sustain loops (ping pong also adds to the memory because it has to be manually unrolled for BRR data).

Yeah... this one is definitely a conversion nightmare, exactly like my old psuedo-SNES songs.

If I were to make a sound driver that would stream and/or load chunks of note data at a time (and maybe load samples in a somewhat bankswitched fashion), then this would perhaps be possible in its fullest form (but it would still be a wildchip entry, as you'd need a SNES ROM to pull it off). However, the warning is that I can't guarantee that the blocks will always make it on time, meaning there better be some backwards jumping in case the loading is taking longer than usual... otherwise, the sound driver may as well crash.

Glad to see I'm not the only one...
Level 16 Pedagogist
post #39218 :: 2014.03.06 1:33pm
  raphaelgoulart liēkd this
yeah I totally agree with kungFuFurby. Drop the header, a bit of tailgating and flipflops to clear the buffer and you'll be good to go. Unless you have used little big indians, then you should go all binary.
Level 23 Mixist
post #39293 :: 2014.03.07 9:53am
  KungFuFurby, Slimeball and raphaelgoulart liēkd this
Perhaps we could have combined patterns. Not too sure if that would have worked out with this song though, as in I don't know if it would result in less than 64 patterns. I might try that when, and if I ever feel like it (just as a test though).
And as for the samples, before we decided to enter this as wildchip (meaning when we still had spc in mind) we did compress the sample quality in hopes of fitting with the requirements of the spc format, but we weren't too fond of the low quality that it ended up being compressed to.
So yeah I think it's understandable why we ended up entering it to wildchip instead.
And sorry for the horrible explanations, I'm not very good with all the technical type of stuff.
Level 22 Chipist
post #39625 :: 2014.03.10 2:16am
One hundred and SIXTY-SIXTH. :o

Deuce indeed.
Level 23 Mixist
post #39647 :: 2014.03.10 8:41am
  brightentayle liēkd this
Level 27 Chipist
post #57920 :: 2015.06.15 11:19am
  brightentayle, Zillah and raphaelgoulart liēkd this
You know something? Even though I already have something planned... I'm tempted to try again (this time using the instrument approach to cut down on rows whenever possible when only volume is involved). I previously gave up due to the sheer incompressibility of later rows, but perhaps with the instrument functionality (which is 99% unused in the original song), I can pull if off, if only barely (again... some other functionality may get de-emphasized in the process, but maybe...). And if I do it in time (highly doubtful given the length), then the authentic conversion can be my 2013-2014 cover. Insane feat (even more than my psuedo-SNES songs... and even some new ones which I anticipate using a new sound driver to deal with them), but maybe I can finally get away with it...
Level 22 Chipist
post #57930 :: 2015.06.15 2:38pm
  Zillah, raphaelgoulart and KungFuFurby liēkd this
Damn, even ay/zxbeep technofeats are easier to reproduce on a real machine than this song. o_o
Level 27 Chipist
post #58021 :: 2015.06.18 7:45pm
  raphaelgoulart liēkd this
Looks like the order list might actually qualify for being able to be squeezed within the pattern limit. You could end up with a 51 pattern song in comparison to your original 158 pattern set.

Of course, there's a catch: most of the patterns will be over 64 rows. Then we have the issue of actually determining if the pattern data even fits the memory requirements...
Level 27 Chipist
post #58050 :: 2015.06.20 7:05pm :: edit 2015.06.20 7:14pm
  brightentayle liēkd this
The furby quits! Even with pattern compression to remove some row redundancies (and thus squeezing the entire order list into 52 patterns) and making additional instruments, the pattern data alone ended up consuming virtually the entire SPC700 memory.

This is going to need a sound driver that can either handle repetition better on a per-channel basis or a driver to swap out the sound data.

I am definitely not going to try to get the sample size down to 1602 bytes to squeeze that in there (from 53,874 bytes after I did optimizations to remove pitch overflows). That's way too much for my taste. Technically it's possible, but anything not designed to be chipped will get a severe beating (especially the drums).

Here's successful try number one to indicate just how bad the situation is: https://app.box.com/s/7n1jqyrs8vruirckopowswe7imvfeq4l
Level 22 Chipist
post #58079 :: 2015.06.22 9:26am
  KungFuFurby liēkd this

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