The supportive thread for Defeatist artists
BotB Academy Bulletins
 
 
95483
Level 22 Pedagogist
post #95483 :: 2018.02.07 8:35am
  
  eSerS, Savestate, chinanewyr, Quirby64, mootbooxle, MiDoRi, puke7 and petet liēkd this
Yoo, though this would be a good idea since by the time i joined i have saw lots of BotBrs struggling with their own works, and that's NOT GOOD

so let make our fellow defeatist botbr shine and rekt our asses with their unleashed repressed talent next compos!

to start with, i'm defeatist, not only artististically BUT on almost everything that i do; just yesterday i felt quite down and looked for ways to support myself; when i read this, i think those BotBrs could appreciate this read too

‌How do I get over someone being more successful than me?
‌wikiHow Contributor
There will always be someone who appears more successful. Success doesn't just come from achieving external goals. True success is measured by your attitude. If you believe in yourself, you can achieve whatever you put your mind to. Don't compare yourself to others, it's a recipe for disaster. Set yourself realistic goals, work to achieve them, and then set greater goals. Little by Little. People who appear successful often took many years to get there.
Source


share your experiences! tips on how to encourage a defeatist artist or your story on how you overcame being a defeatist! who knows? your support may encourage a BotBr to blast the next compo!~ x3
 
 
95486
Level 27 Renderist
post #95486 :: 2018.02.07 9:43am
  
  Xyz, Apsarah, MiDoRi and puke7 liēkd this
titan sucks
 
 
95489
Level 27 Chipist
this is a baseless attack on titan
 
 
95525
Level 15 Mixist
post #95525 :: 2018.02.07 12:28pm
  
  MiDoRi, ViLXDRYAD and noodlebuckets liēkd this
the key is to be absolutely not bothered by losing and continue pumping out minimum-effort entries anyways

aka the reason I don't cite my botb page anymore as a reference for my portfolio
 
 
95561
Level 23 Chipist
post #95561 :: 2018.02.07 1:09pm
  
  mootbooxle and puke7 liēkd this
Like a rollercoaster that only goes up.
 
 
95563
Level 17 Chipist
post #95563 :: 2018.02.07 1:32pm :: edit 2018.02.07 1:43pm
  
  mootbooxle, MiDoRi, b00daw and ViLXDRYAD liēkd this
I tend to be defeatist silently until i cannot take it anymore and force myself to deliver something to be proud of, since i don't want to leave this planet one day and not be satisfied with my own efforts. That's why i'm still working on a game i started 4 years ago with giant development gaps and dozens of moments when i was close to giving up inbetween :D Sometimes You just have to "pull something through" as we say in German speaking countries - finish what You start and do Your best for it. Also cordially reminder that kinkinkijkin's way of not listing the botb page as a reference (or not linking the botb page on social media) can work wonders to reduce self-induced pressure. This account is Apsarah and i don't have the self-induced pressure of having to deliver ONLY gold medal material just because it's an official monicker / associated acc. =3

Edit:
For sauhundcloud, You could basically make a "trash bin" account like all defeatistcore botbers do (3,4 jumping to my mind instantly ^^) and not link it in the main profile, actively reserving the main profile for things You are 100% comfortable with and proud of.

Why am i saying all of this? Back in the past when i wasn't actually able to deliver anything decent i had this sick pressure inside me to always use only one official monicker and push myself into the perception of people. Basically it ended in me being unhappy with my music and deleting all my accs on sauhundcloud blandcamp etc several times. Nowadays i'm keeping an eye on setting reasonable goals and actually using the anonymity the net can provide for the good. Especially helps when Your personality is kind of split =X

PS: Trivia: "Sauhund" translates to "Pig-dog" and is used as a synonym for "pervert"
 
 
95564
Level 23 Mixist
post #95564 :: 2018.02.07 1:34pm
  
  VinCMG, Doxic, noodlebuckets, mootbooxle and b00daw liēkd this
  
  Flalcon hæitd this
Once you think you're good, you stop getting better.
 
 
95569
Level 22 Pedagogist
post #95569 :: 2018.02.07 2:27pm :: edit 2018.02.07 4:34pm
  
  Apsarah liēkd this
kinkinkijkin: i agree with you; while one keeps trying one always figure out how to do better more quick later until is a natural response

Apsarah: i feel quite identified with you; though, most of times is not your art what should make you proud of what you do on this world; the fact of have been supportive to a friend or family is much more a thing to be proud than how famous you become with your art and then being famous has some luck factor to it; if everyone were famous; no one would be, for the most music is a hobby; and the purpose of it is to have another ways to express yourself as well as having something else to have fun on

just don't stop having fun and you'll become better at it! :D one only becomes defeatist when comparing to others, and that is never good; just achieve small goals, like getting a pleasant synth sound, a beat you could dig all day, until you can purpose yourself making a bass line you like and so on, that's the way to become the best! imho

btw i look forward for your game! it is looking astonishing already!~ x3

NerdMcBoon: if your only purpose is to become good, it's probably you get discouraged to continue after BUT there's so much personal goals to feel motivated of when making music; like trying how you perform different styles, trying to make some impressive use of effects, or music you like with no effects at all, making something in a style that is not of your preference BUT with the goal of you ultimately liking how you pull it, and so on!

two different concepts when criticizing oneself is agreeing in other constructive approach and being plain self-punishing

i think improving is better when you have fun seeking other approaches for what you like to do, than to force yourself to be sad about your work until you accomplish something (have seen much people getting burned out and have a bad time for way long before they accomplish something when they take it this way, so i'd recommend the funnier way instead as it is faster and more self-compassive imo)
 
 
95570
Level 29 Mixist
post #95570 :: 2018.02.07 3:04pm
  
  DBOYD, petet, Uteprin and ViLXDRYAD liēkd this
Self-doubt is all a part of the process. I still deal with it daily! I'm pretty sure that anyone who is interested in achieving something deals with self-doubt. It would actually scare me if I didn't have some measure of it.
It's part of our internal checks and balances, and is a component of successful thinking. But that's only if we master self-doubt, learn to trust the process, and know that inspiration will emerge if we continue to seek it. We can't let it get the best of us.
 
 
95572
Level 24 Mixist
post #95572 :: 2018.02.07 4:28pm
  
  mootbooxle, Uteprin and ViLXDRYAD liēkd this
From talking with people who I've looked up to I've found out even though they might be "better" or "more successful" than me, they don't think so themselves or at least don't give it a thought. Most of these people also don't tend to think about what other people do, or even compare themselves to others that much if at all. They do what they do purely out of their own interest, their own curiosity, their pursue of fun and entertainment, or a sense of fulfillment, not for the sake of others.

For the past few (five?) years I've been trying to do the same, to not think about others and focus on doing stuff I want to do and stuff I find nice. And for what I can see myself, it has worked somewhat. I'm not as stressed about performing or showing my stuff, since I'm more invested in it and I think it's good.

If the problem is that you feel nothing you make or do is good, I'd guess you need to really think about why isn't it good. What makes it not good, what's wrong, what could be done better. And then fix that stuff, either right there or in the next project/thing.

I also agree with what's said in this thread so far (except the stuff about titan), good riddance.
 
 
95573
Level 22 Pedagogist
post #95573 :: 2018.02.07 4:31pm :: edit 2018.02.07 4:37pm
  
  mootbooxle liēkd this
mootbooxle: i agree, self-doubt is very hard to control BUT i can see how it is useful

though, only is while is a wholesome self-doubt and not a hurtful one; and the gap between those is small

a bit can be a great encouragement BUT too much only can do bad to some persons and their will to keep doing music, so it is good only for people that can control it imho

LittleTheremin: totally what you said, can't agree more!~ x3
 
 
95574
Level 23 Chipist
post #95574 :: 2018.02.07 4:34pm
  
  Xaser, mootbooxle, DBOYD, RazerBlue6, Uteprin and ViLXDRYAD liēkd this
Instead of being discouraged about those that may appear to be better than you, instead look at it as inspiration and a proof of concept that this level of talent is humanly possible :). You are also a human, therefore it is also possible for you to achieve :).

It is absolutely okay to be proud of your own work as long as you don't put others down while doing so.

It's that balance that gets you out of a slump. Being humble enough to learn from and compliment others, while being confident enough to know that maybe you can do it too because they have.

I think I am not half bad sometimes :), but certainly coming here and listening to what all of you can do inspires me to be better. So take heart defeatists, maybe something you have made that you didn't think was so great inspired someone like me to try harder. You're most likely better than you think :).

I held off joining here for a number of years because I didn't think I was good enough and held you all in extremely high regard. Now that I am here though, it turns out my work is very appreciated by you kind people. So with that in mind, please do not make the same mistake I did.

Just go for it! If you're not where you'd like to be just keep at it, you'll eventually get there and you just might inspire someone else to do the same while you're at it :).

You probably won't find a more supportive and knowledgeable community of extremely talented friends to help you along the way. So use BOTB to the full and try your best. You will improve. I certainly have :).
 
 
95575
Level 17 Chipist
post #95575 :: 2018.02.07 4:49pm
  
  ViLXDRYAD and b00daw liēkd this
Vil, actually i want to please myself more than i want to get known for my work! My main goal is to be able to point to something special and beautiful and say "look, i have made this" even if almost nobody is listening haha! At least short-term. If people like it that's a cool side effect of course ;)
Long-term i don't fear anything because i KNOW my zealous efforts will pay off sooner or later and even if only one person hypes my finished work i will be pretty satisfied haha. That's the positive side of low expectations =))) In any case, there are no (full-fledged original) new SMS games coming out and by filling that gap i will surely attract some interest even without trying. I think a nice last thought is to cite mootbooxle: defeatistcore is a (reoccurring? =3) part of the path!
 
 
95580
Level 22 Pedagogist
post #95580 :: 2018.02.07 5:24pm
perhaps is true then, i shouldn't deny being a defeatist BUT actually accept it and always use it while it is a good encouragement for me

is so good to hear so much good advices; there's a ton to learn from everyone point of view! i feel really satisfied of seeing so much support so far; thanks you all, everyone!~ x3
 
 
95590
Level 17 Mixist
post #95590 :: 2018.02.07 10:56pm :: edit 2018.02.07 10:56pm
  
  Torowin, Doxic, RazerBlue6 and MiDoRi liēkd this
If I've ever needed to reflect on the fact that everyone seems to be better than me, I always remember:

"Roses are red,
violets are blue,
there's always an Asian,
better than you."

fin.
 
 
95598
Level 13 Mixist
post #95598 :: 2018.02.08 4:14am
  
  Jangler, eSerS, Flalcon, Uteprin and ViLXDRYAD liēkd this
One of the few threads where aura might be relevant in interpreting someone's opinion.

I feel like a perpetual runner up, which gives me me a lot of itch to learn to be better, to poke and prod at those more knowledgeable than me. I appreciate that I am not matured in this kind of music.

Some people get stuck there, and at times I feel the pull back to that stable island. This is where I think ego does someone a great deal of help. Sometimes you are held back by a weak ego, and its difficult to be objective about how far you've gotten as a musician without looking back on those you surpassed (most important of them being your past self.)
 
 
95601
Level 23 Chipist
post #95601 :: 2018.02.08 6:20am
  
  VinCMG, puke7, ViLXDRYAD and ctrnr liēkd this
There are a few forces at work that can also lead to frustration:

Anyone who does better than you do is improving at the same speed as you. This can lead to the impression that you haven't improved or gotten worse just because you are improving more slowly.

The other is that people will vote for what they are conditioned to like. If you make music that doesn't meet that condition better than others in the battle, you won't win. There's nothing wrong with this as long as you recognize when it happens.
 
 
95602
Level 13 Mixist
post #95602 :: 2018.02.08 6:30am
  
  mootbooxle and eSerS liēkd this
That's the nature of any competitive environment. What you must do is not merely improve, but improve faster than others, with more intensity and drive. If you are sensitive to low placements, but also have a diminished urge to compete... seems you're bound for frustration in much more than just a chip competition. It's a game of who gets it and who doesn't get it. An attitude of predation should be cultivated- when you find a challenge you know you can meet, you should instantly be filled with the desire to attack it and come out on top. You should feel you deserve to place high if you could just study and improve more.
 
 
95604
Level 21 Chipist
post #95604 :: 2018.02.08 7:14am
  
  mootbooxle, petet, MiDoRi and ViLXDRYAD liēkd this
Currently I perform more than I compose right now. It still garners a lot of the same feelings. "Will they like my voice" "can I actually play this guitar lick" "screwed up the lick, now everyone thinks I'm dumb" "oops my voice cracked good job"
It's all in my head, and I think that was the biggest thing for me here was being so worried about how something would be received instead of focusing on actually improving myself.
Even when you cater to someones taste, you still can be rejected. But your best efforts into something you love and I believe that it comes through the music, and vice versa.
 
 
95607
Level 23 Chipist
post #95607 :: 2018.02.08 9:33am
  
  b00daw liēkd this
  
  RazerBlue6 hæitd this
titan really sucks
 
 
95615
Level 25 Mixist
sc
post #95615 :: 2018.02.08 1:38pm :: edit 2018.02.08 1:39pm
  
  Robyn, mootbooxle and MiDoRi liēkd this
Comparing yourself to other artists is essential. You'll never know how much better or worse you are if you don't do it. I compare my music to my favorite artists all the time so I can understand the options I have for production and composition techniques. You can't do anything if you believe in yourself but you can do some pretty cool stuff if you really work at it. It IS good to struggle with your artistic work, it's how we learn. I know how to produce but half of the songs I make aren't up to my own standards. The struggle is always there. I didn't like Titan either.
 
 
95618
Level 23 Chipist
post #95618 :: 2018.02.08 2:22pm
The only problem I have with comparing to the usual winners too much is, so many of my stronger results were either because I outlasted stronger competitors (which has its merit) and that voters thought I was a different competitor. I think that's why certain regulars don't come around anymore, but to an extent, that can't be helped.

I'd rather win as myself, but... That's not likely to happen.
 
 
95628
Level 21 Mixist
post #95628 :: 2018.02.08 3:40pm
  
  ViLXDRYAD liēkd this
just have a good time
 
 

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